Curse

Fay Vert · Aug 14, 2010, 12:05 AM // 00:05

I find it amusing that anyone can worry about buffing leading to rangers becoming overpowered when they let permasins utterly destroy the game for so long. It's hard to imagine what sort of an update they could possible do to make rangers even remotely close to that abomination.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 14, 2010, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

I find it amusing that anyone can worry about buffing leading to rangers becoming overpowered when they let permasins utterly destroy the game for so long. It's hard to imagine what sort of an update they could possible do to make rangers even remotely close to that abomination.

Yes because it was our fault that happened...

Just because one thing was really really bad at one time doesn't mean that it's A OK for another thing to be really really bad too.

Fay Vert · Aug 14, 2010, 01:22 AM // 01:22

No but serioulsy, what kind of a buff would you have to give a ranger before you can get within a million miles of that mess? So let's not talk about the risk of making stupidly useless profession O/P and worry more about making it vaguely relevent tot he game.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 14, 2010, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

No but serioulsy, what kind of a buff would you have to give a ranger before you can get within a million miles of that mess? So let's not talk about the risk of making stupidly useless profession O/P and worry more about making it vaguely relevent tot he game.

Obviously something similar to SF. Assassins were pretty weak at one time too. You're being naive if you don't think Anet is still capable buff something to a horrendous and easily abusable level.

Fay Vert · Aug 14, 2010, 02:34 AM // 02:34

No, I just think that ANet may have finally got the idea of how bad that was.

Just pointing out the way some people thing the sky is falling in at the suggestion that a bit more damage could added to bows or traps

belshazaarswrath · Aug 14, 2010, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

No, I just think that ANet may have finally got the idea of how bad that was.

Just pointing out the way some people thing the sky is falling in at the suggestion that a bit more damage could added to bows or traps

Well considering they gave Obsidian Flesh a BUFF after it had been overpowered already for years I don't share your faith.

But with the Ranger you're dealing with a whole different beast I suppose. They are defensively quite good already and Anet will probably never mess with their defensive capabilities (Which would make them another imbalanced tanking class).

If they overpower too badly (see sins and rits) they will be another big damage dealer. But I'm afraid in this case they could easily become THE BEST damage dealers and they could do so at range...which would put everyones titties in a twist.

But hey this era of Guild Wars will probably be coming to a close if rangers ever are changed. So it will be no concern to a vast majority of the fanbase.

Seriously though no one is critiquing my idea of stackable preps and multi target bow attacks allowing 1 or 2 preps to be active while using them.

I see it as the best, simplest, and most potentially interesting answer. That plus reverting some spirits to old functionalities and making some other effect only you (or your foes) would put them where they need to be.

Fay Vert · Aug 14, 2010, 01:05 PM // 13:05

There are too many forums on this site now, this should be in riverside along with all the general profession balance discussions. Someone must hate rangers to prevent them being discussed in the open forum.

btw, I disagree with the idea of multi-target bow attacks. Barrage was a nice exception but as a principle, how does a single arrow affect multiple targets? Unless they are all lined up in front of each other! Makeing them more multi-target is, as has been pointed out, just making them like any other damage dealer but at range. I think rangers damage should be high single target.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 14, 2010, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The message of this thread has now been appearing in Campfire for quite some time. It was time to create a summary of the problem and present it in the part of the forum where ideas have the potential to change the game.
Disregarding the the poor skill changes, the objective look at the rangers was one of the best ones written and as such it could have fulfilled that task nicely.

It's time that the discussion about the ranger problem gets moved to Riverside because having it in Campfire achieved nothing.
I mean just look at the discussion in this thread after it was moved. It died and the only thing keeping the thread alive is the bitching about it's move.

You have unrealistic expectations if you think this thread will change anything in the first place. The other threads about other classes have done nothing. Neither will this one. A thread on guru is simply not a catalyst for changes in the agenda in terms of skill changes. Hell even the commentary on the little changes to the mesmer are having zero effect.

The Riverside is also not Sardelac Sanitarium. THAT is the place where you post suggestions. The topic and purpose of this thread simply makes it so it doesn't' belong in the Riverside. Obviously the mods agree since we are talking about it here rather than there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

btw, I disagree with the idea of multi-target bow attacks. Barrage was a nice exception but as a principle, how does a single arrow affect multiple targets? Unless they are all lined up in front of each other! Makeing them more multi-target is, as has been pointed out, just making them like any other damage dealer but at range. I think rangers damage should be high single target.

So you think Rangers should be what Paragons should be? Rangers shouldn't be put in a box like that. They should be able to have access to good AoE and good single target damage at range. Considering they are mainly about damage and partially about support. And barrage doesn't shoot 1 arrow at someone it shoots several. This is a concept that has existed in fantasy for an extremely long time.

Xiaquin · Aug 14, 2010, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

I think rangers damage should be high single target.

They made a profession for that, it's called an assassin. Of course they also bring scythes and turn into AoE beasts as well. Why should a ranger be worse by limiting its targets or forcing one to melee? Have you seen GW2 videos? They didn't turn it into a sniper, they're moved toward spread shots, and increased the scope.

Fay Vert · Aug 14, 2010, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Just to clarify. I mean bow rangers. Sure I love the wilderness survival line and I see traps as a great way for rangers to do AoE damage. But sorry, a singl bow is a single target damage weapon. Barrage is a fun exception but it would be stupid to assume that that is the way bows work, shoud work and the way forward.

As for assassins and dervishes? Welcome to what made a great game shite, they are just different culture's warriors wrapped up in marketing BS to sell a product to the teenage masses.

And you see one video showing how barrage interracts with environment in GW2 and you use that to say that rangers are going aoe? Fail you, you missed the point of the video. Do you even know what a bow is?

Xiaquin · Aug 15, 2010, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

And you see one video showing how barrage interracts with environment in GW2 and you use that to say that rangers are going aoe? Fail you, you missed the point of the video. Do you even know what a bow is?

Was with you up until here. I think you forgot about Spread Shot. You can't keep throwing logic at this idea of a bow only being able to hit one target, this is a fantasy MMO.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 15, 2010, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Was with you up until here. I think you forgot about Spread Shot. You can't keep throwing logic at this idea of a bow only being able to hit one target, this is a fantasy MMO.

I mostly agree. I mean in context to the world some things wouldn't make sense (elementalists shooting fireballs when they use water trident). But shooting more than one arrow isn't absurd. People can actually do that in real life. Then there's the fact that there is precedent from other fantasy worlds for this thing to happen. So yea it's a moot point.

Rangers are supposed to be ranged damage masters. As masters of ranged damage they should have access to good AoE and single target damage. As of now they don't really have much of either.

Ranger Jaap · Aug 15, 2010, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Don't touch my Marksman's Wager its a great skill for PVE high energy attack spamming.

Fay Vert · Aug 15, 2010, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Was with you up until here. I think you forgot about Spread Shot. You can't keep throwing logic at this idea of a bow only being able to hit one target, this is a fantasy MMO.

My bad, I meant speadshot, I forgot they also added a barrage vid too. But again, that's not hte point. The point is not what ANet are doing/have done to bows = good and right. The point is that bows, damage wide, in GW are bad, broken, useless and need fixing. If all we are going to get in GW2 is AoE bow skills with mediochre damage, and bow skills with mediochre damage, then GW2 will have rangers as badly broken as GW1 has.

Given the risk of getting GW2 wrong is high, and the risk to GW1 now low, then ANet really should be having a re-think about how bows work. Where did the idea that poor damage at range is balanced? What utter tosh! Bows are deadly because of their range, accuracy is the trade off not damage, and until that is sorted then bows will always be broken in GW.

Xiaquin · Aug 15, 2010, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Given the risk of getting GW2 wrong is high, and the risk to GW1 now low, then ANet really should be having a re-think about how bows work. Where did the idea that poor damage at range is balanced?

We don't know exactly what we're going to get in GW2, I just showed that ANet's vision of the bow is not a single-target only weapon. You can't have that from a profession when other professions, especially melee, are so powerful. Ranger needs to be a difference-maker on the field.

IMO, the profession is extremely dated, and as far as I've read, a serious update isn't even on the agenda. There are a lot of things to rework to the profession, but if you kill AoE, it'll be even less useful.

Nilator · Aug 15, 2010, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

I find it amusing that anyone can worry about buffing leading to rangers becoming overpowered when they let permasins utterly destroy the game for so long. It's hard to imagine what sort of an update they could possible do to make rangers even remotely close to that abomination.

Whirling Defense. For 10...120...160 seconds you dodge all incoming attacks and adjacent foes take 100 piercing damage. You gain an additional 100 damage against all elemental damage while this stance is active.

G4ymBoy · Aug 15, 2010, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Are we forgetting that Pets will be a MAJOR part of what makes the ranger unique in GW2? To me it would make sense if the bow in GW2 had more AoE options as well as some good single target, but pets are obviously a huge part of the ranger in GW2 and I think it is safe to say that a lot of the single target damage is goin to come from the pet (depending on the pet).

As for GW1, Increasing bow damage for rangers (AoE AND Single Target) is important, I think we can all agree to that. It could be done directly through a change to expertise or less likely a change to the min+max damage of the bow. The indirect route would invole prep stacking and multi-arrow attacks not stripping preps. Traps and rituals are a totally different beast to fix.

Fay Vert · Aug 15, 2010, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nilator

Whirling Defense. For 10...120...160 seconds you dodge all incoming attacks and adjacent foes take 100 piercing damage. You gain an additional 100 damage against all elemental damage while this stance is active.

Nice try but no, not even that as any hex area will wipe you. Besides no skill dodges, they block, so again, many areas that will wipe you.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 15, 2010, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Nice try but no, not even that as any hex area will wipe you. Besides no skill dodges, they block, so again, many areas that will wipe you.

Uhhhhhh what? Are you trying to argue that this obviously exaggerated extremely overpowered example isn't overpowered? Ha Ha oh wow.

Xiaquin · Aug 15, 2010, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by G4ymBoy

The indirect route would invole prep stacking and multi-arrow attacks not stripping preps.

We could also change preps to function more realistically, as in "Your next (number) arrows function as X arrows" instead of relying on an annoying timer. I'd also like to see armor penetration and/or a way to inflict cracked armor.